Interviews
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(Hassan, Shawn, Shepherd, Matthieu) 1. After mixing it up on the first two solo CDs why did you decide to make this one purely instrumental? Well there are many of reasons but the two simple ones are that the format of pure Modern/Primitive guitar required it and, most likely, the next CD will be all vocal songs. 2. Wasn’t this CD supposed to be released last year? Yes and the long delay can only be attributed to many small logistical problems and in all honesty my personal procrastination...for what was a good reason at the time. Originally I had planned to record the CD in the fall of 2002 out in San Francisco with Henry Kaiser producing and engineering. Henry was great, he had recently put together the 156 Strings CD for Cuneiform and I thought it would be a great follow up for both of us to do another, specific, odd acoustic guitar release. But then all these little issues kept creeping up. I had hernia surgery, I moved permanently to New Haven, money, etc., nothing unusual, just life in general. Then when I became settled in Connecticut I found myself, for no other reason than personal “pleasure”, transcribing the songs that were to be on the record. I had recently acquired Finale (ed. Note: Finale is a music notation software program) and I just went nuts with it. One song led to another and eventually 3 months later I finished the 22 songs I’d planned to record. It was so much work for me. My notation was pretty weak when I started and on top of that trying to learn all the ins and outs of the program, of which there are plenty...Consequently it would take me hours to write out a few minutes worth of music and get it right. As frustrating as it was I loved it! And I’m very proud of the transcription book. Ironically by the time the book was done I was so weary of working with the songs that I set them aside and tried not to over think their importance in my life. Finally one year later the CD is done. 3. Why didn’t you just record the CD first then do the transcriptions? Well of course that would seem the logical thing to do but…there is no real reason. More than anything I would say I had made records before, I hadn’t really written out my songs. Well, I had done the Young Person’s Guide to Improv book (ed. Note: In the summer of 2002 Shawn released an instructional book entitled: The Young Person’s Guide to Free Improvisation and Experimental Music. Available from Quixotic Books and EHP Productions) but those charts are very simple compared to the M/P pieces. 4. What are you currently listening to? I thankfully have a wonderful college station to listen to here in New Haven, WNHU 88.7. From 12pm-6pm, on most weekdays, they play punk and new indie music, it’s fantastic. Besides that, Modest Mouse, The Beatles, Karp, Atomic Bitch Wax, Third Eye Blind, Books on Tape, Mike Keneally. It changes from day to day. I could go on and on about who I like and who get influenced by. 5. In your live performance you have an unusually large amount of interaction with the audience (for those who have not seen Shawn perform live he will often talk with audience members at great length, about the most random topics). To the point where it seems like that is as much a part of the show as the music. Would you say this is true? Very much so. The audience interchange helps keep the show interesting to me. When touring a lot and playing 24 shows in one month, you naturally will find yourself playing the same songs over and over. Don’t get me wrong I love these songs but the audience is what keeps things fresh. Actually much of this came from early audiences not paying attention. If I was playing in a new town, where no one knew me and no one cared I tried to make sure that at the end of the evening they knew who I was and at least they would care one way or another, that is, like me or not. Unfortunately, the music can’t always do this. Besides people like being part of the entertainment. So if a show was not going well I’d ask the audience members why. What was wrong? Or I’d simply ask them what they did for a living. Eventually I found, and I must say after being very dull and slow on stage for a couple of months, that I got the knack for making conversations with strangers very entertaining. At least they were entertaining to me. I hadn’t thought of this before but I think Spaulding Gray influenced this. Spaulding is definitely one of my heroes and I loved the idea that he could walk on stage and talk for 90 minutes and be engaging the entire time. I remember reading in one of his books that one thing he would do was bring people on stage when things weren’t going well. 6. You state in your M/P introduction that you are influenced by the visual arts. Do other art forms also influence your music: film, literature, photography? Very much so, though I’m not sure if I can say specifically how. I guess the easiest thing to say is if I watch one of my favorite films, top three being, An Angel at My Table, The Chocolate War and Barfly, I find I can’t watch the entire movie without being so inspired I have to stop half way through and go do some work. Anytime I see good work it makes me want to do good work. And films and architecture are usually such huge undertakings, it takes so many people, so much money and so much time to make a movie or build a building, it’s hard not to feel like I haven’t done enough. 7. You have some pretty innovative ideas when it comes to songwriting and song structure. Do you see yourself as a musical revolutionary? Not at all. I make NO claim that my music is groundbreaking, revolutionary or completely original. By giving M/P Guitar a label I am simply giving it a distinction that I feel is genuine, accurate and honest. When strangers ask me, “What type of music do you play?” I wish I could give them a straightforward answer, country, folk, metal, rap, etc. But that is almost impossible today for almost anyone, unless you are specifically playing “traditional” music, al a bluegrass, blues, baroque, what have you. Rock music for instance, what does that mean? Buddy Holly or Yes? AC/DC or The Beatles? It means all of them to me. That is why I try to give some point of reference when I talk about my music. The problem arises when your points of reference are obscure! I’ll gladly tell you M/P Guitar sounds like Leo Kottke meets Fred Frith but if you don’t know who those two players are should I say, Fingerstyle Folk Guitar meets Avant-Garde, even that doesn’t work? One thing I would like to add...one project I am working on now is what I call straight-ahead rock and roll and my point of reference is The Foo Fighters. I love their first two albums and my project is clearly influenced by them. On the other hand, when I ask someone what type of music they play, and this happens a lot when meeting new musicians, few things make me more angry when they say, “We don’t sound like anyone, it’s completely original.” There is NO way this is true today. I know about too many types of music for this to have any validity. I used to work in a indie record store that sold lots of local music (unfortunately most of it bad) I would always ask, “What do you sound like?” If the guys in the band would say, 311 or Weezer or Slayer or whomever, I would say, “Great I like those bands.” and put it on. Whether or not they did sound like those bands at least they made the effort to cite their influences. On the other hand if they would say, “We’re totally original.” And I then I put the CD and they would sound like 311 or Weezer or Slayer, I would be furious and never put that CD on again or try and sell it. I think it’s pathetic to claim you’re totally original. A statement like that clearly shows your ignorance of culture, musical knowledge, and even evolution. Even my favorite artists who stand head and shoulders above others in creativity, Frank Zappa, Bach, Jean DuBuffet, Kurt Vonnegutt, you can still see what they had been influenced by if you look at what came before them. Enough, I just needed to get that off my chest one last time. 8. The liner notes for The M/P Guitar album are a bit stiff compared to your normally light, conversational speaking voice. Was this the intent? I would agree that it is not exactly the way I speak in an everyday conversation unless I’m trying to be perfectly clear and straightforward…not that I go out of my way to be ambiguous in conversation but I wanted these notes to get straight to the point. I tried a few different angles and I found that a…I hate to call it pseudo…say a simplistic, but somewhat academic language worked best. I’m a member of a writing group in New Haven, we meet once a week, when we can, and talk about things we’ve been working on, mostly prose. They all helped me put the notes together in a way that was pedagogical but also readable. 9. Stylistically, besides the M/P Guitar, you really are all over the musical map. Boud Deun was, among other things, a little Progressive, a little Fusion, a little Punk and a little Classical. You first two solo CDs have songs that range from things you might hear on a Indie-Rock college station to tunes that would seem more at home on an NPR folk program. Do you suffer from a musical identity crisis? I don’t know that I would use the word “crisis” but certainly some sort of schizophrenia. Personally I think this is a good thing, others might disagree. I’ve always listened to many different styles of music and I’ve always wanted to play them. Luckily I also have practiced and studied enough that I am fairly proficient in most styles of music. Probably more than practicing to become technically adept I practice to play as many different ways as possible. For instance I’d much rather practice Irish fiddle rolls or piano chord voicings than trying to get fast. That said I still want to be fast. I suppose if there is any real crisis in my playing it is the desire to be a normal guitar hero...yes, I really do want to be...well the best example is probably Eric Johnson, someone like that. Pick one of the 80’s guitar heroes. Part of me wants to play obvious rock guitar that people can listen to and say, “Hey that guy’s amazing!” But when I sit down to play like that I always think it would sound better if pounded it out with a hammer, literally! And then I don’t even do that. Gosh is this sounding like therapy? I believe I’m okay with this dilemma, and I’d like to point out that by definition a dilemma is having to chose between to undesirable choices, because I think I end up somewhere in-between without compromising myself. 10. Do you work on music everyday or do you wait for inspiration? Well the past couple of months I’ve been continually inspired so I have been working everyday. I moved into a new apartment, the first place, since I’ve been constantly touring, I’ve really called my own in about four years and I’ve surrounded myself with muses, is that plural, of every sort. From artwork to books to movies I’m pretty content at home. That is one reason I didn’t tour this year. Probably my main source of inspiration lately has been in books. I’ve been reading, Forces in Motion, a bio and series of interviews with Anthony Braxton compiled by Graham Lock. That book has been…I can’t even tell you how important it is to me as an independent, new music, whatever you want to call me musician and composer. I can’t say enough good things about it so I won’t even try, go read it! Another book that might seem the opposite side of Anthony’s music is, Our Band Could Be Your Life by… This book is a series of short histories of early 80’s punk bands. It is amazing the similarities the independent punk scene and the avant-jazz movement share. Or maybe it’s not so amazing when you are talking about fringe music. Regardless, those two books really got me thinking how I needed to get this new CD out there. That the music was too important to me not to be documented when it’s time was, is, now. Even if it was only for a small group of people. And then keep moving on. 11. Anything else you would like to add? Goodness if that isn’t enough for your readers... THE END THE NEW HAVEN ADVOCATE Interviewed by Christopher Arnott So, New? One cutting-edge practitioner of the new music, outside the Yale realm, sees history repeating itself in todays scene. by Christopher Arnott - March 25, 2004 Shawn Persinger straddles the classical/pop line every time he strums. The gifted, virtuosic guitarist, who moved to New Haven last year, has led an experimental rock band, written for the classical concert stage, and toured as a solo singer/songwriter known for "aggressive folk." Recently he has been developing a new style he calls "Modern/Primitive Guitar." We held an e-mail powwow with Persinger last week. 1. Your influences are varied. So are your audiences. How did the changing musical landscape contribute to your new modern/primitive experiments? Very little, if at all. Basically I've always been interested in all types of music, from punk rock to classical--say, Dead Kennedys to Bach, Zappa and Third Eye Blind. In the 1960s there was an audience for unusual music. Think of the experimental things the Beatles did. Ornette Coleman was well known. Zappa and The Mothers released records on a major label that would barely be able to find a market today, in the last couple of years anyway. Then, in the 1970s, most of this "strange" music went underground. But in the circular way of life, perhaps the trend towards unique music is coming back. 2. Are the breakdowns in musical boundaries, the lessening of rigid labeling and definitions, a factor in the freedom to experiment? Not for me. I like labels! Musicians talk about how they hate to be pigeonholed, as if they're breaking new ground and don't sound like anyone else. That's ridiculous! I know for all the new ideas I think I'm bringing to fingerstyle guitar, some classical composer probably did them a hundred years ago. Or maybe [John] Fahey did it during an improv in 1969. If you can come up with one new musical idea in the course of a 20-year playing career you'd be lucky. The best thing to do is just write the best music you know how, the things you like the most. Don't worry about trying to be new or different. There's nothing new about new music, though it could use a little more structure. Enough experimenting; write me a song! 3. What is the reaction from your respective fan bases (the classical klatsch and the coffeehouse crowd) to your new sounds? It's very hit or miss. The problem often is the folk crowd says; "You're too weird." And the avant-garde says, "You're not weird enough." But the average listener who isn't a folky or a fringe music fan will say, "Oh, that's different. I haven't heard that before." I've had the idea at certain shows that I'm going to just play the weird, instrumental pieces because I think this is what this audience wants. But I get tired of that after a half an hour and I throw in a pop, singer/songwriter tune. Lo and behold, the audience loves it! You should never underestimate the listening audience--maybe that's what we should call them, not the "new music audience" but "the listening audience," because that is the best music fan. The one who isn't there to hear a specific style of music but one who is just there to listen with an open mind. THE END NUCLEUS Interviewed by Sergio Vilar 1. Shawn, how did you begin in the occupation of the music? I believe my first paying gig as a performer was when I was 18. I played in a small coffeehouse/café doing some originals and singer/songwriter type cover tunes. I played in a few other bands before Boud Deun, but nothing long term, serious or profitable…not that Boud Deun was profitable fiscally. 2. What guitarists have you influenced your way to play and to compose? There are so many. And I do make the distinction between playing and composition. Playing wise I’ve studied every style possible. There are a few players I really dislike (no need to mention them here) that I avoid but for the most part I’ll learn from anything. And not just guitarists, any virtuoso musician, horn, piano, violin, anything. I spent a fair amount of time learning Charlie Parker solos, Miles Davis, Chopin, Paganini, Ivo Papsov, anyone with advanced musical and technical skill. Playing and composition combined: Leo Kottke, Frank Zappa, Larry Coryell, John McLauglin, Steve Howe, Robert Fripp (but most of my Fripp influence is composition wise, not so much his playing). 3. In what does your Modern/Primitive style differ of the one created by Robert Fripp, for example? I think of Fripp’s playing as being VERY clean and precise. M/P is not. I love sloppy players: early Larry Coryell is a perfect example, also Eugene Chadbourne. 4. Can the concept also be applied to other instruments? Certainly. I’ve recently been writing a few pieces for piano that could be considered Modern/Primitive. 5. Shawn, could we return behind in the time? Would I like to wonder what it happened to Boud Deun... Boud Deun broke up for several reasons, personal and musical. For me the music had run it’s course, it was time to move on. 6. At artistic level, what do you rescue of that experience? So much! It is where I acquired my personal voice as a composer and as a guitarist. It changed my entire composition and style and it is how I discovered a new voice on the solo acoustic guitar. Before Boud Deun most of my solo acoustic work sounded like second rate Leo Kottke. I still practice Kottke tunes and I think he is the greatest, absolutely amazing but I would never try to write like him again. I wish the same could be said for other instrumental acoustic guitarist out there. Kottke and Hedges are the most ripped off acoustic guitarists in history. 7. How is your current relationship with Matt, Greg and Rocky? I haven’t spoken with Greg in years; our paths just don’t cross. I talk with or see Matt about twice a year. Rocky and I speak frequently. He recorded my first solo record and the track I did for the Henry Kaiser/Cuneiform comp CD 156 Strings. I also played on his project, “Dysfunctional Family”. 8. Does it exist the possibility that they work together in some moment again? Sure but there would have to be a good reason, musical or otherwise. I have several projects on paper and/or in my head but no capital to finance them. 9. From the point of view musical, what new forms you have developed as musician soloist? In the past few years I’ve been focused on my solo work, the Modern/Primitive style, so that is one thing. As far as my electric playing is concerned, I’m very rusty. I’ve just started to practice again after about 4 years of very little electric playing and almost not electric performance. 10. How would you describe "Reasonable Horse" and "Peerless", the two disks that you take published until today? What elements do they approach them and do they distance one of the other one? They are certainly very different when compared to Boud Deun CDs. Solo acoustic and a fair amount of singer/songwriter work, all with a “weird” edge of course. But as far as distinguishing the two CDs from each other they are actually very similar. Peerless has double tracked vocals, which I prefer, and I think my playing is technically stronger on that CD but for the most part they are cut from the same cloth. Peerless is slightly more evolved than Reasonable Horse. 11. Are you working in a new album? What can you be ahead about their content? I have about 4 demos for 4 very different projects. One instrumental CD focusing on the M/P Guitar style. One rock/fusion project that is more in line with Boud Deun. One straight ahead rock CD, in the style of the Foo Fighters or Third Eye Blind. And one CD of all “concert” or so-called “serious” music, music for small chamber groups, solo piano, piano and violin duets, pieces like, music I composed but wouldn’t be performing. But I want to put them out properly, with the right production and promo. As of yet I haven’t made the time and haven’t had the money to do this. |